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David Shifrin: Well, hey Lee, going to kick off this week with the story about Netflix and streaming platforms. I almost bypassed this story because when I was looking around for digital healthcare marketing and saw this story about Netflix, I thought it was going to be just riding the coattails of all the discussion around Netflix.

And then I realized that it was from MM&M – Medical Marketing and…now I’ve forgotten what it is. What?

Lee Aase: Medical Marketing and Media.

David Shifrin: Medical Marketing and Media, they also rebranded not that long ago, I like their new logo. Anyway, despite the fact that I can’t remember what the 3 Ms stood for, it’s a solid site. They do some really good work. And so I thought it’d be worth clicking into it. The upshot of the article is that with Netflix now considering advertising, that could potentially change the game for companies looking about, looking at advertising in particular. I thought the really interesting point was that with economically thinking about this potential recession that we may be looking at, that is going to change sort of the ad spend and may open up some opportunities for smaller and mid-sized businesses to get in the game.

Lee Aase: Yeah. I just think it’s an amplification or it’s a multiplication of the number of places where advertisers can be, you know, and that as the continual fragmenting of the audiences, I mean, previously the Netflix audience has been inaccessible. Once somebody’s locked into Netflix, once they’re watching it, they’re uninterruptible and that’s actually been part of, a big part of the appeal as well is that people are able to watch things without being interrupted.

So, figuring out how that works within the Netflix platform will be interesting. But so many of these streaming services that are…Netflix had its 200,000 subscriber loss, and I think some of the others, being so many of these services that’ll supply demand. And especially if there’s an economic contraction that may open up space for smaller players to be able to get access to get their content into some of these niches that might fit really well with what their strategic goals are.

So I think it’s, yeah, the technology that the evolution of these platforms and their being ready to explore the ad supported, or at least partial ad supported, element is going to create some opportunities.

David Shifrin: How much do you think healthcare organizations should pursue this? And I don’t have numbers on this, but just thinking about my own viewing habits, which are primarily streaming, but I do watch regular or cable TV, I see…I can’t think of really any healthcare. I see some, I do see some pharma ads on streaming.

But you know, if I see an ad for Vanderbilt, my local hospital, it’s going to be on a local channel or on cable. It’s not coming through on an ad on Peacock, for example. So you know, how much value is there, and you’re talking about the audience fragmentation, is it worth a local hospital trying to get hyper-local targeting?

Lee Aase: I think that just depends on it might relate to what the initiative is. And is there a particular type of program that aligns really well with, we talked in the previous episode about some of them, diversity inclusion topics and initiatives.

There may be some places where if you’re able to get hyper-local targeting within these platforms, in addition to then content targeting, that you could find… I’d say there’s some opportunity. I’m not saying stop everything else you’re doing and pursue this, but it’s definitely something worth watching.

And I think the folks that have the most money to spend on it—the pharma folks—they’ll be the pioneers in that, I think. And as we in the provider space, in the hospital space, see what’s what they’re doing, I think that’ll spur some thoughts and some innovation among some of the marketing leaders to say, Hey, yeah, we could, this might fit for this particular initiative.

So it’s worth keeping an eye on.

David Shifrin: For the trend, I wanted to ask you about the current state of play on renting versus owning. And as I produce the content for Jarrard, we have a blog, we have a LinkedIn presence, and thinking about how we balance all these different platforms and where to focus.

So I think conventional wisdom for a lot of years is that organizations that are producing thought leadership and content want to own the platform. So that algorithm changes, any other kind of rule changes, aren’t affecting your ability to get that information out there, which is something we see with social media sites all the time, right?

Facebook changes their algorithm about every 10 minutes and it constantly changes the ability to be visible. But at the same time, there’s a lot of people on LinkedIn. There’s a lot of people Tik Tok. So how are you thinking about reach versus SEO, renting versus owning, website blog versus social media, et cetera.

Lee Aase: Yeah. I actually think of it as renting and owning. I think it’s like, you need to have the home and then you need to have the apartment in the, in the downtown or whatever, you know, it’s like, you need to be in both places and that’s actually a really helpful thing to be thinking about.

Because my bias has been toward having the control, that you need to have a home base. It’s important to have that, but I also recognize that the—like LinkedIn, for instance—with the thought leadership when you’re posting long form or longer form content, instead of just a link to your blog post you get readership there with people who don’t want to leave the app, and so you’re getting some impact from that. So I think being able to have maybe different versions of things that are in LinkedIn versus on the home base, maybe it’s an extended excerpt that you’re doing on LinkedIn or some content that is bespoke, as they say, for LinkedIn…I wanted to use that word, cause I’d never gotten it before and it’s…

David Shifrin: It is. It’s a very, it’s like a, it’s a sort of a…

Lee Aase: A super fancy word.

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

David Shifrin: You’ve got turnkey and you’ve got bespoke.

Lee Aase: Yeah. Very good.

David Shifrin: Yeah. And something that we’ve been looking at recently on LinkedIn is their newsletter feature, which is not new, but it’s been slowly rolling out, and so we recently on our Jarrard account got access to it. And so I’ve been cross posting a lot of our content there, and it is effectively a secondary blog that people can subscribe to. It does seem to hit some folks who aren’t necessarily always seeing our content otherwise.

So I think it’s a good thing.

Lee Aase: Right. Yeah and you want to go where the people are. And if to the extent that you’re putting content in a place where it can be liked and commented and shared…in addition, just the convenience of reading it on platform versus having to click off to your website.

We have goals that we want to get people to our website; that is part of our core ideas. That’s how people sign up and like, they join with us and having a blend I think makes a lot of sense.

David Shifrin: Then finally for this week’s philosophical tip or philosophical discussion—philosophical might be little bit too lofty of a term but whatever—

Lee Aase: Yeah.

David Shifrin: I’ve been thinking about navigating the intersection of digital tools and channels with the really personal, intimate nature of healthcare. You know, there was something in the article that we just talked about, the MM&M article, about how advertising isn’t really meant to be hyper-customized because you’ve got to reach a broad audience, it’s got to be general. But healthcare is ultimately the most personal thing that you can have. It’s literally somebody touching you to help you through difficult times. And so I was thinking about this and then thought this is perfect because you’ve opened a clinic. You are doing this, you have an extensive career in the digital space and are now in a very personalized clinic. So how are you thinking about that balance of personal with something that’s a little bit more hands-off through a screen?

Lee Aase: Yeah, a big focus is that we want to make it so that technology is the facilitator for the personal, the technology isn’t a barrier technology, isn’t something that just enables us to scale. It does enable us to reach more people, does enable us to target to a community.

But also, we don’t want the technology to be something that gets in the way of those human interactions. We want it to be the enabler and facilitator of those reactions. And a lot of that is if it’s convenient for the patient to use video conferencing, if it’s a way that we can see them more easily, like they’re feeling sick and they don’t want to come in, that’s telemedicine: in the post-pandemic era, isn’t a like, ooh, that’s a whole new thing, but is an application of digital technology in a way that is more human because it is more individualized. It’s about that intimate relationship. So I’ve been blessed, pleased at how the technology, used in the right way, can be really that facilitator to make some of the things that would have been more difficult to do previously, much easier.

And so it’s been an exciting time to be starting something new because of the way that…well we talked earlier in, maybe it was in the previous episode? about some of the transcription tools and things like that that are able to be harnessed and used within a practice to just take it to that… take away some of the grunt work, where technology can take some of that effort out of the way that would enable then the human, the more direct human interaction at a higher level.

David Shifrin: Yeah, just the grunt work. That’s literally what you just said.

Lee Aase: Well, yeah, let me just, just let me just throw in another thing. So one way that we’ve used this is…so I mentioned previously Dr. Dave Strobel is our our medical director, our founder of the clinic, and one of the things he does is go into depth, great depth in describing conditions.

He’s an educator, he’s a teacher at heart, he loves to help patients understand what’s going on in their body and why and how all of this stuff works. And that’s part of the reason we have a one-hour appointment as our basic unit of seeing patients. There’s a lot of stuff that he says a lot of times, and so if we can use the vide to capture some of that stuff (and that’s part of what we’re doing), our production is like, this is the thing that you’ve said dozens of times, hundreds of times to people as you’re describing metabolic syndrome or the various other conditions. He’s got a video that we did on baby table manners, things like that in terms of how to get your kids eating solid food and kind of the right order to introduce foods.

You know, he could go through that every time. And he has done that for 30 years with patients, but if we can capture that and then say, okay, these are online video modules that are of specific, can be a specific interest to different elements of the practice, members of the clinic, then when they come in, they can have watched the video and they can go deeper and they can probe on the questions and we can say, what didn’t you understand? Or what could I explain better? And that helps us make the next, maybe add another module. If we find out that another video to the series, if we’re finding out that it isn’t communicated as clearly as it could be.

So I think that’s one way that if you can take the broader topics where there is some, it’s still pretty specific, it’s still pretty focused and in-depth, but then enabling to go even deeper within the individual patient visit.

David Shifrin: That’s where you go from a turnkey video series to a bespoke one hour appointment.

Lee Aase: Exactly, there we go!

David Shifrin: How do like that?

Lee Aase: Great stuff. Oh, how about that? You are a trained communicator and a PhD to boot.

David Shifrin: I’m just writing my notes here, getting my points in. All right. Thanks, Lee. It’s fun as always.

Lee Aase: All right. Appreciate it. Talk later.

David Shifrin: Well hey, Lee, good to talk to you again. We’ll jump in here. And episode seven, we’re about to have seven of these things, what do they say, in the can? So, for this first story here it’s from Fierce Pharma. The title is “CMI Media Group launches new practice to help pharma reach out to diverse audiences.” And of course this is coming in the midst of what’s really at this point a two-year elevation of diversity, equity, inclusion, health equity. And really rethinking how healthcare as a whole and how we as society approach equity.

It’s a really important push and all the social change that we’ve seen. And so this is just another thing, inclusive marketing. The quote to latch onto here I think for me was that… it says, “With new technology that’s allowing brands to target messaging to specific audiences like never before, there’s a big opportunity for pharma to be more inclusive and equitable in its messaging, said the chief media and innovation officer at CMI.” And so again, this is focused on pharma, but I think the ideas here apply to healthcare providers as well. So you know, what’s your, what are you looking at in terms of inclusive messaging when it comes to any new pushes or new technology, new campaigns?

Lee Aase: Yeah, I think the newer technologies that we have just make the content production much more cost-effective, much more inexpensive than it’s been previously. So I think spending some time on listening to people coming from different backgrounds and perspectives and better understanding what sort of message will pull through with them better. It’s like an online focus group, kind of using social and digital as a way of gathering intelligence in terms of what kind of messaging is going to have impact. And then just being really focused on, okay, what are some of the broader initiatives that we have and where can we specifically reach out in a particular area of need?

So for instance, colorectal cancer is something that affects everybody, like affects all races, all ethnic groups. The African-American community has a higher incidence and a need to potentially get screened earlier, typically. And so being thoughtful about how you can be doing that messaging, how you can be finding the right platforms to be able to reach the particular audiences I think is something that has been a priority and should continue to be, and not just pharma but provider groups as well, to be really proactive in that outreach.

David Shifrin: Do you think this is new? Or is it just that we’re in a moment socially and technologically where people are thinking about it in a slightly different way?

Lee Aase: Yeah, I think it’s just becoming more easy to execute on this kind of outreach. I mean, there definitely is a heightened awareness and a heightened interest and wanting to be very proactive in reaching out to people. And one of the top things that was mentioned in the article is a particular genetic disease that the founder of this group, this innovator, had, that his wife was Cambodian and there’s a particular disease that affects Asians more and some members of his family had been diagnosed with it.

And so just a recognition that more than ever before, there’s an opportunity to achieve business goals that are important and are sustaining to the enterprise while at the same time being able to target messaging to a particular audience in a way that’ll be more attractive to them and resonate with them and cause them to maybe even collaborate and share in spreading the message.

David Shifrin: Yeah. Okay. I thought what you said at the beginning of that answer was interesting, where you said it’s easier to do. And I don’t want to put words in your mouth; when I hear tha,t my reaction is okay, if it’s getting easier, then there are fewer excuses to not do it. So let’s do it!

Lee Aase: Right. Yeah. I mean the cost of production of this stuff and being able to tailor things is getting easier. The cost of listening. With the way the ability is as AI and other tools are enabling you to get… at least to bird dog some insights, that for them, the humans, to come in and say, okay, how do we do this in a genuine way versus just what the borg would say in response to this that we’re gathering.

David Shifrin: Okay. So for our trend this week – I created an awkward transition here, but I don’t know, maybe it’s not that awkward – but then thinking about another type of inclusivity, I was thinking about this actually producing our content for Jarrard recently. And it’s making sure that content is accessible for folks who may be visually impaired or have hearing impairments, or whatever it might be.

And so we hear a lot of things about…it’s stock at this point, I think, ensuring that you have all texts on images, that you have an opportunity for having subtitles on videos. And I think that’s not only for folks who may be hearing impaired, but just if somebody is in an office and they want to watch a video, they need to be able to see what people are saying. Anything that you’ve seen or you’ve thought about in terms of making content as broadly accessible as possible, or is it just keep doing what we’re doing?

Lee Aase: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s a good, so it is keep doing what you’re doing and maybe expand it a little bit, and I would also say that it’s one of those things where you’re doing well by doing good, because it isn’t just that it’s more accessible for the visually impaired or hearing impaired.

That’s all true, but also the fact that it’s helping you with your SEO, as you mentioned, as people are doing the…if you’re doing captioning on videos, for instance, not so much the SEO side, but the captioning of videos, a lot of people are in a place where they can’t, they don’t have the liberty to play the audio.

But also just stopping the thumb as people are scrolling over something in the feed. If they’re seeing the words that’re there, it’s more likely to draw them in, so it’s about effective multi-sensory communication. And if you do that for people, so it’s multisensory communication for people who have access to all those senses, but for those who lack them, it’s at least making it, or giving them an entrée.

I’d also say the overlooked thing is the extended captions on videos, not captions, but descriptions, particularly on YouTube because that’s part of the whole SEO process. And also then the ability to include links within the videos. That’s not exactly the undiscovered territory, but maybe the forgotten territory.

It’s one of those things that people could put more focus on and get for a relatively small investment of time. Especially when you have the ability to do natural language translation of… an AI translation of audio. If you can get that converted to text pretty reliably, then using that not only in the caption but in the description (or good substantial sections of it) to the extent that the character counts allow is a good thing.

David Shifrin: Okay. Yeah, we just ran a survey of the U.S. population, 800 adults, about communications preferences and found that… we asked people, what do you prefer? Written texts, audio, video, or no particular preference and consistent with what I think the conventional wisdom is people largely preferred video.

And so it was just a reminder to me that we gotta make sure that, one, we’re producing content in ways that people want to consume, but then also making each piece of content as accessible as possible.

Lee Aase: Yeah. The other thing related to that is, yeah, people prefer video and some people prefer text, and some people, and also would like to be able to zoom through it more quickly, because one of the things people do is the 1.25 or 1.5 speed on the video sometimes to just get through them more quickly, videos and podcasts. Not this one, of course they’re going to want to catch every second of it and totally enjoy all of it, but…

David Shifrin: Pull your car over, pull up the car and get the notepad out. I think this is gold here, folks.

Lee Aase: Yeah.

But the other part is that people like to…and there’s something about, especially if you have an extended video or an extended audio it isn’t, yeah, that taking notes part is a little more complicated. So that’s why we put timestamps in, lots of times, in the podcast to say hey, this is where this was talked about.

And so incorporating that I think in some of the video descriptions is a winner.

David Shifrin: Cool. And I’m taking this section a little bit long, but I will mention, because you mentioned transcriptions, and two platforms that I’ll highlight…actually three, and let the secret out. One is otter.ai. It’s great for meeting notes. You can sync it to your calendar, and it does a really nice job. It’s more for just general meetings rather than content production, but it does a nice job and it has live real-time transcription. And the other one that we’re recording this on right now, the platform that we use for remote video and podcast production at Jarrard is riverside.fm.

And ask my colleagues, I talk about it probably more than I talk about my own family, which is concerning, but it’s a great platform and not too long ago, a few months ago, they now have an option with some of their packages where you can get a transcription of your videos.

And so what we’re doing, everything you’re hearing right now is recorded remote with really high quality, and we can pull transcripts. So there’s that. And then the last one that I’ll mention, which is what I use to edit these podcasts, also has a video editing feature, is Descript that and has an outstanding transcription service that’s built in.

And that’s what I do. But it’s a really nice way to scroll through, both for production and then taking that, converting it to subtitles, whatever it might be.

So the tools, to your point, Lee, are out there, and they’re not expensive.

Lee Aase: Absolutely. Yeah, that’s great stuff. And that’s application for me just in our clinic that we’re starting cause I’m the chief administrator, CEO plus the social media guy, for now. And so being able to have some of these tools that can make that production more streamlined—that’s stuff I’m taking away, too.

David Shifrin: Alright Lee, so for the last section, we also in a previous episode talked about how executives can think about their personal presence on social media, both as individuals and as representatives of the organization.

And I want to think about how marketing and digital folks and healthcare organizations can come alongside their leadership, their executive teams, to support them. So I guess the question here is, what is the role of healthcare marketing in first supporting CEOs, and then helping the organization through leadership, transitions, things like that?

Lee Aase: Yeah. I mean, I think, so part of it is, the CEO is one of the chief assets of the organization and, as the face and the voice of the organization and obviously as a driver of the strategic direction. And being able to harness that voice and being able to accomplish what the strategic goals of the organization are is what being the CEO is all about.

So there are some who are naturally inclined toward that, and then there are others who are obviously good communicators in business communication and active and being able to accomplish their work, their will through the organization, but they might need a little help, might need a little handholding in terms of how to be most effective in their use of these social platforms to represent themselves and the organization.

And so I think just making, considering the CEO communication as a pillar of the overall strategic plan and then figuring out how to harness that by, for instance, video, we talked about how video’s been a big part of the topic, but in our experience with our clinic, we’ve got Dr. Dave Strobel, who’s a 30-year physician. Does a great job explaining things to patients, but if he were to…I don’t want him to be on social media, like I don’t want him to be personally doing it, but yet if I can capture video of him doing descriptions, explaining things and then do some post-production, it’s really good work, but you know, really elevating the value that they can contribute.

Really harnessing that and then adding the right people to do the editing to present that authentic voice, but then also to do the bird-dogging to say, hey you’re getting some reaction to this and calling them in to be able to comment as necessary so that there is that authentic level of engagement that’s meaningful instead of it…if it feels too polished, then it’s not going to have the effect, either. I mean, most of the reason people get into these CEO roles is because they’re good with people. They’re good at communicating. They can help move things along. And the digital and social is just a way to supplement that.

David Shifrin: I’ll be honest. I’m confused by this story today. It’s from Healthcare Finance News and it’s, you know, I’m confused, but got to talk about it. I want to talk about it. “CVS Files Patent to Sell Goods and Healthcare Services in the Metaverse.” And when you read through the article, it’s not exactly clear exactly what CVS is going to be selling, because if I fall and slice my hand open, I don’t need a metaverse stitching and bandage, I need an actual emergency room. But this is continuing with this rapid rise in stories that we’re seeing about what the metaverse is doing and can do. And of course, Facebook has rebranded to become Meta and virtual reality is here and expanding.

So yeah, what is your take on digital goods and services?

Lee Aase: Yeah, I thought I was confused by it as well, because it says, you know, “CVS Health wants to trademark its logo, establish an online store, create downloadable virtual goods ranging from prescription drugs to beauty and personal care products.” I’m thinking, are we going to have a virtual opioid crisis?

Or what’s the deal? Just like, how does virtual work in that? So I’m not really sure. I think there’s, I mean when it really gets down to it, I think some of the telepresence stuff that was talked about in the other article that we’ll be talking about, and I apologize for jumping ahead with it, but it seems like the, it seems like the immersive experiences for really making that virtual connection be much more like face-to-face.

And perhaps even in some ways because you can have some digital measurement sensors attached with them, I think there are some opportunities to really enhance that experience. I think the main thing, the main thing out of this story is something that does relate to what I’ve advocated for a long time, is that when a platform comes out that it’s really important for big brands to be staking their claim, you know, that they don’t want somebody else to be squatting on their name.

We had an experience when I was at Mayo Clinic that we had, there was a British rock band that set up a page on MySpace called Mayo Clinic and the band’s name was Mayo Clinic from County Mayo in Ireland. And they thought that was cute, I guess, but so that gave us some impetus for being able to say hey, we should set up… This was back when Facebook pages were the new thing. We said let’s set up a page on Facebook to make sure that nobody else claims that. So I think this is just sort of taking that next step on the legal front, that where CVS is saying, okay, metaverse is going to be a thing, so let’s at least stake our claim here, and set out the stakes that we are CVS in the metaverse and nobody else can use that.

David Shifrin: So it’s protective as much as it is proactive.

Lee Aase: I kind of think…so, I mean, that’s what it looks like to me because I have a hard time wrapping my head around how virtual goods can be. I can see virtual services totally. But virtual goods seem a little bit disconnected.

David Shifrin: Yeah. Well, and the article also mentioned that they’re talking about potentially selling NFTs, non-fungible tokens, which is a whole other Pandora’s box that we’re not going to get into right now, but that’s the other big thing. And again, personally I don’t see the value in buying any, I don’t know what kind of NFT CVS is going to offer me that’s going to make me want to spend the money, Bored Ape Yacht Club isn’t even enough to get me interested. So I don’t know what CVS is, but…

Lee Aase: Yeah, I think there’s, you know, NFT and then there’s another acronym that uses both T and F as well, but maybe kinda…

David Shifrin: I think we found the title for this episode.

All right. Before this goes off the rails Lee, let’s move into the second section which, as you telegraphed, is more on the metaverse, again not really a platform specifically, but a digital place. This is from a Forbes contributor named Bernard Marr who writes on enterprise tech. The title is “Amazing Possibilities of Healthcare in the Metaverse” which got us thinking again, the metaphor as a place, as a platform of sorts. There’s sort of three areas that Marr references: telepresence, which you’ve mentioned, digital twins, which is really interesting, and then blockchain technology, which we hinted at there with talking about NFTs, but you know, some of this stuff is pretty immediate—I think like the telepresence of being able to offer telehealth visits in the metaverse or simply just by good old fashioned Zoom call. And then some of it like the digital twins is incredibly fascinating and I think promising, but a much longer play. This is mapping people’s genetics, so they can, we can experiment virtually and to see how we’re going to respond to treatment. So what are you looking at as the metaverse continues to get more, more traction?

Lee Aase: Yeah. I mean, I definitely think the telepresence part has a lot of application right away. And I think that’s where organizations could, especially in things like counseling and therapy sort of approaches, be able to have that much more immersive experience; to have it be much more like being there would be I think that’s a no brainer. And then, and finding…so I’d suggest that for organizations, finding someone, finding an advocate within the organization, within the clinical areas, who’s really interested in applying this, coming around them and helping them to prove the concept and show the value I think is really a good opportunity.

The digital twinning does sound fascinating. I just think it’s hard to…I think it’s problematic in just even as you note, as you map the whole genome, how do you know exactly whether you’re taking into account the right factors as you’re fast forwarding through 10 years, about what happens with, you know, the whole idea of like, you take a twin and you say, okay, maybe you could run a thousand simulations and be able to then come up with a… Actually as I think it through, I think that might be it, the Monte Carlo simulation with digital.

So it’s not just digital twins, it’s digital…you’re creating a population out of the twins. So just as with Moore’s law and the power of computing increasing exponentially, probably eventually at some point you’d be able to run those sorts of simulations that might give you a better sense of what the range of possibilities would be, given a different intervention.

David Shifrin: Okay. In the meantime of that while the scientists and the data folks are trying to figure out how to do all of that – and we just talked about kind of staking a claim in wherever you are as an organization – the metaverse becoming a more powerful place for brands to engage.

And so any other prep work that folks should be thinking about? Whether that’s with HIPAA compliance, training clinicians to be thinking about one day possibly entering virtual reality to deliver telehealth, anything along those lines?

Lee Aase: As I alluded to a little earlier, I think the key is to find the champions, to find the early adopters who are willing to experiment and learn. Willing to help sort out what the issues are going to be, so that then the organization can apply it on a broader scale.

So it’s part, and this kind of relates, probably segues into our ROI discussion for this time, that, as I mentioned before in my thesis, that as the I approaches zero ROI approaches infinity. One of the big ways that you keep the I low is by getting people to volunteer—by getting people who are already on staff to say wow, this is really cool and I want to focus my energy on this. I’m willing to dive in and put in my own effort on it.

And so that’s that kind of makes the organization more like a startup, you know, even an established organization where you’ve got a lot of people that are psychically betting on exercising options, so to speak. I mean, they’re trying to, they’re creating some psychic ownership in a new trend and because of the personal satisfaction that they get out of leadership in an area like that. So I think finding, identifying and recruiting people from within the organization that you already have to say would you like to play? would you like to be involved in this? is a way to be able to demonstrate that the potential to demonstrate the return without a major outlay of additional resources so that you can prove the concept and then hopefully make the case for a broader adoption.

David Shifrin: Okay, in our next conversation, we may, maybe we’ll talk about kind of setting up how you set up a sandbox with enough guardrails to be careful but also giving people the freedom to test that out.

In the meantime: digital ROI part two and talking about how healthcare marketers position digital programming to justify that ROI.

And you’ve talked about it last time, and then just before this is the last thing you said there was hopefully take the results on to the rest of the organization and leadership and show the value. What does that look like? How should digital marketers think about helping to get their leadership teams bought into these programs that they’re testing out?

Lee Aase: I think the first thing is they have to be solving a real problem that the organization is either spending money on now or creating new opportunities for generating income. So it’s either, how can you concretely save money through some of these digital innovations?

So for instance, if it’s telepresence, okay, you’re saving time on travel in between meetings and you’re enabling people to be able to be more…have less overhead in terms of those face-to-face relationships and interactions. So figuring out ways that you can measure and make the case for that, for the savings that are coming there. But then also beyond that in testing and learning and seeing where the additional revenue opportunities are, and by trying this out are we able to make additional connections that will lead to patient volume, will lead to memberships or whatever the model is of acquisition?

David Shifrin: Alright, Lee, well, thanks!